Landmark
news
broke
this
morning
that
law
practice
management
company Clio has
signed
a
definitive
agreement
to
acquire
the
AI
and
legal
research
company vLex for
$1
billion
in
cash
and
stock.
After
my
initial
report
earlier
today,
I
had
the
opportunity
to
sit
down
with
Clio
founder
and
CEO
Jack
Newton
to
discuss
this
deal
and
what
it
means
for
the
legal
tech
market.
Below
is
a
transcript
of
that
conversation,
edited
for
length,
style
and
consistency.
Ambrogi:
I
feel
like
every
time
I’m
on
a
call
with
you,
it’s
some
news
that’s
bigger
than
the
last
time
I
talked
to
you.
And
I
can’t
even
imagine
what
the
next
call
is
going
to
be
like,
because
this
is
pretty
big.
Newton:
I
don’t
know
how
we’ll
keep
it
up,
but
we’ll
do
our
best.
Ambrogi:
Honestly,
I’m
still
trying
to
process
and
digest
this,
so
help
me
understand
this.
What’s
the
significance
of
this
deal?
Newton:
Well,
I
think
it’s
hard
to
understate
the
significance,
Bob.
Like
you,
I
myself
have
had
a
hard
time
processing
just
all
the
opportunity
this
represents.
And
I
think
in
the
age
of
AI
especially,
there’s
really
a
first-in-legal-tech-history
opportunity
to
bring
together
the
business
of
law
and
practice
of
law
together.
What
I
saw
about
a
year
ago
was
that
AI
would
drive
a
really
deep
convergence
of
the
business
of
law
and
practice
of
law.
These
had,
up
to
this
point,
been
two
very
discreet
universes
in
legal
and
in
legal
tech.
Lawyers
had
their
business-of-law
tools
like
Clio,
and
they
had
their
practice-of-law
tools
like
Thomson
Reuters
and
LexisNexis
and
Fastcase
and
vLex.
While
there
might
be
some
superficial
integration
between
those
two
tools,
they
were
really
discrete.
What
we
saw
with
AI
was
the
incredible
opportunity
that
it
represented
…
to
bring
these
two
worlds
together
and
to
drive
a
convergence
of
these
two
worlds
where
you’re
able
to
look
at
all
of
your
legal
workflows
and
all
of
your
legal
data
from
one
vantage
point.
Especially
as
we
evolve
into
an
era
of
agentic
AI,
we
saw
an
opportunity
for
Clio
to
evolve
as
a
platform
–
as
a
platform
that
is
not
just
orchestrating
the
work
of
human
legal
professionals,
but
helping
those
human
legal
professionals
orchestrate
the
work
of
agentic
AI,
helping
support
them
in
realizing
their
full
potential
and
helping
them
deliver
best-in-class
legal
services
to
their
clients.
We
saw
vLex
as
a
unique
company
and
a
unique
asset
in
the
marketplace
to
enable
those
AI
ambitions
and
our
ambitions
–
to
bring
together
the
business
of
law
and
practice
of
law.
This
company
is
incredible
in
that
–
as
you’ve
pointed
out
in
your
own
writing
–
they’ve
built
what
is
widely
regarded
as
the
best
legal
AI
in
the
market.
They
have
the
most
comprehensive
global
legal
database.
When
brought
together,
this
represents
an
opportunity
to
bring
incredibly
strong
AI
capabilities
to
Clio’s
platform
and
to
leverage
the
incredible
wealth
of
data
and
actionable
insights
that
data
represents
and
embed
those
deeply
within
the
tool
that
lawyers
use
every
day
in
the
form
of
Clio.
We
really
haven’t
seen
in
the
history
of
legal
tech
these
two
types
of
companies
brought
together.
The
Thomson
Reuters
and
LexisNexis
duopoly
is
rooted
in
a
history
of
legal
publishing.
Bringing
these
technologies
to
the
place
that
legal
work
gets
done,
I
think,
is
a
uniquely
empowering
capability
for
legal
professionals.
And
I
think
this
becomes
essential
in
the
world
of
AI
because
legal
professionals
will
expect
the
tools
they’re
using
to
support
both
their
execution
of
the
business
of
law
and
them
doing
their
real
legal
work
within
the
practice
of
law.
Bringing
these
under
one
platform,
we
think
is
the
same
kind
of
unlock
that
Microsoft
was
able
to
achieve
when
they
brought
Microsoft
Windows
and
Microsoft
Office
together
for
the
first
time.
We’ve
all
seen
what
a
powerful
combination
of
platforms
that
has
been
over
the
course
of
the
last
20-plus
years.
We
think
this
is
the
combination
of
platforms
that
will
power
the
next
20-plus
years
of
legal
innovation.
Ambrogi:
You’re
talking
a
lot
about
the
AI
capabilities
that
vLex
has
developed.
It’s
also
a
substantial
legal
research
database.
It’s
a
substantial
source
of
litigation
data.
What
do
those
parts
bring
to
Clio
or
how
do
you
see
those
parts
as
fitting
into
what
you’re
doing?
Newton:
I
really
think
about
vLex
as
being
two
companies
and
bringing
two
different
kinds
of
value
to
Clio.
One
is
in
what
you
might
describe
as
the
legacy
business
–
this
incredible
business
that
Luis
and
Angel
from
vLex
and
Ed
and
Phil
from
Fastcase
have
built
over
the
course
of
the
last
25
years
to
build
out
the
most
comprehensive
global
legal
database
and
legal
intelligence
platform
that
provides,
on
its
own,
such
an
incredible
value
add
to
Clio
customers
to
have
that
incredible
wealth
of
legal
data
and
legal
research
at
their
fingertips.
The
number
one
feature
request
we’ve
had
at
Clio
for
expanded
capabilities
in
our
product
suite
is
legal
research.
Customers
want
to
have
this
deeply
embedded
in
the
tools
they
use
on
a
daily
basis.
This
is
something
Ed
(Walters)
and
I
have
talked
about
for
the
better
part
of
15
years
–
what
a
potent
combination
that
legal
data
and
legal
intelligence
platform
would
bring
to
Clio.
Think
about
the
kind
of
data
that
Docket
Alarm
has
and
how
that
can
get
woven
into
Clio.
The
possibilities
just
with
that
data
asset
combined
with
Clio
are
endless
on
their
own.
Now,
the
second
part
of
what
makes
vLex
so
exciting
is
what
I
might
describe
as
a
startup
embedded
in
that
legacy
business,
and
that
is
the
Vincent
AI
startup,
where
they
have
built,
with
a
small
but
incredibly
capable
team,
an
AI
platform
that
is
able
to
deliver
on
an
incredible
array
of
AI
capabilities,
from
legal
drafting
to
legal
research
to
contract
review.
Ambrogi:
If
nothing
else,
a
great
thing
about
this
deal
is
it’ll
divert
attention
from
Harvey
for
a
little
while,
because
it
seems
like
all
anybody’s
been
talking
about
is
Harvey.
But,
of
course,
there
had
been
the
rumors
that
Harvey
was
looking
to
acquire
vLex.
And
then
there
was
the
news
two
weeks
ago
of
the
strategic
alliance
between
Harvey
and
LexisNexis.
Was
that
at
all
a
spur
to
get
this
deal
going?
Were
you
looking
at
the
competitive
market
out
there
in
terms
of
what
LexisNexis
is
doing,
what
Harvey’s
doing,
what
Thomson
Reuters
is
doing,
and
trying
to
respond
to
that
in
some
way?
Newton:
It’s
public
information
that
Harvey
had
been
pursuing
vLex.
But
our
interest
in
vLex,
our
vision
of
this
strategic
rationale,
behind
integrating
Clio
and
vLex,
is
something
that
has
been
a
topic
of
discussion
between
myself
and
the
principals
at
Fastcase
and
then
the
principals
at
vLex
for
a
number
of
years.
The
interest
from
Harvey
did
spur,
I
think,
vLex
into
becoming
an
actionable
opportunity.
The
timing
aligned
with
the
hold
period
for
vLex’s
owner,
Oakley
Capital,
starting
to
come
to
a
close,
which
is
when
assets
like
vLex
potentially
get
put
up
for
sale.
Ambrogi:
I
saw
Shubham
(Shubham
Datta,
Clio’s
VP
of
corporate
development)
post
on
LinkedIn
that
this
is
the
largest
M&A
deal
in
legal
technology
for
a
privately
held
company.
I
couldn’t
think
of
any
acquisition
of
this
dollar
amount
other
than
the
Reveal
acquisition
of
two
different
e-discovery
companies
in
one
deal.
Is
this,
in
fact,
the
largest
M&A
deal
in
legal
tech
history
that
you
know
of?
Newton:
That’s
our
understanding,
Bob,
in
terms
of
what
is
publicly
disclosed
data,
which
is
all
any
of
us
have
to
go
off
of,
but
it
is
the
largest
legal
tech
deal
in
history,
which
is
pretty
incredible.
(A
Clio
spokesperson
said
this
is
also
the
largest-ever
technology
acquisition
in
both
Canada
and
Spain.)
Ambrogi:
Could
you
talk
more
about
what
this
means
for
your
customers
now
–
both
with
regard
to
your
“legacy”
customers
in
the
smaller-firm
part
of
the
market,
but
also
as
you’ve
been
looking
to
expand
upmarket,
what
does
this
mean
for
that?
Newton:
Number
one,
our
small
to
medium
sized
customers
should
be
extremely
excited
about
the
capabilities
that
vLex
and
Vincent
will
bring
to
Clio.
In
a
lot
of
ways,
we
see
this
acquisition
as
democratizing
access
to
leading
edge
legal
AI.
…
I
think
there’s
a
perception
that
…
there’s
a
bit
of
a
velvet
rope
around
some
of
these
legal
AI
technologies
and
startups
that
only
the
biggest
law
firms
in
the
world
can
access.
I
saw
Carolyn
Elefant
just
wrote
about
this
a
few
days
ago,
where
she
wanted
to
access
some
legal
AI
technologies
and
was
basically
told,
no,
you’re
too
small
for
us.
We
think
that
is
hugely
disempowering
to
solos
and
small
firms,
which,
as
we
showed
in
the
cloud
era,
can
be
some
of
the
fastest
moving,
most
innovative
users
of
legal
technology.
We
believe
this
acquisition
will
help
make
absolutely
world
class
and
leading
AI
and
legal
research
databases
available
to
the
small
to
medium
sized
law
firms
that
represent
the
majority
of
lawyers
in
every
market
around
the
world.
Secondarily,
on
the
flip
side
of
that
coin,
this
opens
up
a
huge
enterprise
opportunity
for
Clio.
As
we
continue
to
expand
into
the
enterprise,
as
we
expand
into
the
Am
Law
200,
as
we
expand
into
the
enterprise
corporate
legal
environment,
this
acquisition
will
allow
us
to
invest
and
double
down
in
the
huge
amount
of
traction
that
Vincent
and
vLex
are
already
seeing
in
those
segments.
Coupled
with
our
recent
acquisition
of
ShareDo,
we
believe
this
really
bolsters
our
ability
to
become
the
de
facto
category
leader
for
everyone
in
every
segment
of
the
market,
from
solos
to
enterprise
firms,
in
both
the
operating
system
of
legal
and
the
productivity
platform
of
legal
in
the
form
of
AI.
Ambrogi:
What
is
the
category
anymore?
Some
of
the
comments
I’ve
seen
so
far
on
LinkedIn
allude
to
this
idea
that
this
is
potentially
reshaping
the
entire
way
we
think
about
categories
of
legal
tech
products.
Newton:
I
think
that’s
exactly
right.
I
think
we’re
in
the
process
of
defining
a
new
category
of
legal
productivity
software
and
intelligent
legal
productivity
software.
The
term
“practice
management
software”
seems
immediately
limiting
in
terms
of
the
opportunity
that
this
combination
represents.
What
we
think
we’re
fundamentally
doing
here
is
redefining
how
legal
work
gets
done
in
the
era
of
AI.
Ambrogi:
What
about
globally?
One
of
the
ways
you’ve
been
expanding
over
the
last
number
of
years
has
been
into
new
global
markets.
vLex
is
well
known
in
other
parts
of
the
world.
Does
this
help
accelerate
your
expansion
into
other
global
markets?
Newton:
Absolutely.
One
of
the
things
that
really
excited
us
about
vLex
is
the
global
scale
of
their
legal
database
and
their
legal
intelligence
platform.
vLex
operates
in
over
110
countries.
Clio
operates
in
over
130
countries.
So
there’s
obviously
a
very
substantial
overlap
of
our
international
coverage.
And
vLex,
like
Clio,
wants
to
be
a
global
player.
And
unlike
some
of
vLex’s
competitors
that
focus
primarily
on
the
U.S.
market,
vLex
is
a
leading
provider
of
legal
data
and
legal
intelligence
in
100-plus
markets
worldwide.
So
in
terms
of
market
opportunity,
there’s
a
significant
joint
opportunity
to
realize
an
opportunity
in
becoming
the
global
leader
in
legal
AI.
Ambrogi:
What
happens
to
the
vLex
team?
What
happens
to
the
founders
and
the
rest
of
the
team?
Newton:
Everyone
is
staying.
Our
conviction
and
commitment
is
around
investment
and
really
doubling
down
on
what
is
working
wonderfully
well
at
at
vLex.
What
we’re
super
excited
about
is
how
synergistic
these
two
companies
are.
When
you
look
at
the
overlap
and
you
look
at
the
complementarity
of
what
Clio
is
strong
at
and
what
vLex
is
strong
at,
these
are
almost
orthogonal
capabilities
–
orthogonal
in
the
sense
that
Clio
is
excellent
at
the
business
of
law
and
vLex
is
excellent
at
the
practice
of
law.
The
makeup
of
our
employee
bases,
the
makeup
of
our
technology
teams,
the
makeup
of
our
respective
capabilities,
all
really
reflect
those
strengths.
Ambrogi:
One
of
the
hallmarks
of
Fastcase
before
it
got
acquired
by
vLex
and
now
vLex
since
then
has
been
its
relationships
with
bar
associations
all
across
the
country.
What
happens
to
all
of
that?
Do
you
expect
that
those
kinds
of
relationships
will
continue?
Do
they
get
stronger?
Newton:
I
think
they
get
stronger
in
the
sense
that
the
only
company
that
does
bar
association
relationships
as
deeply
and
as
well
as
Fastcase
and
now
vLex
is
Clio.
We
are
two
of
very
few
companies
that
can
say
they
have
partnerships
with
every
single
bar
association
in
the
United
States,
and
with
hundreds
of
additional
bar
associations
at
the
county,
regional
and
practice
area
specific
level.
We
see
this
as
a
really
important
channel
for
building
awareness
and
making
technology
accessible
to
lawyers.
So
what
exactly
that
evolved
form
of
a
joint
bar
partnership
program
looks
like
is
something
we’re
obviously
going
to
be
working
on
over
the
integration
period.
But
bar
associations
can
expect
to
bring
an
even
more
compelling
value
proposition
to
their
members
in
the
form
of
a
combined
Clio
and
vLex.
Ambrogi:
What
about
your
own
development
of
Clio
Duo?
Does
that
all
go
away
now?
Does
that
all
get
merged
together
in
some
way
with
what
vLex
has
been
building?
Have
you
figured
that
out
yet?
Newton:
How
Clio
Duo
and
Vincent
either
become
unified
or
remain
distinct
is
something
we’re
still
working
through
in
the
integration
process.
But
what
is
fundamental
is
–
and
again
down
to
the
underlying
deal
thesis
and
the
synergy
that
exists
here
–
when
you
look
at
the
capabilities
of
Duo
and
Vincent,
they’re
really
reflective
of
that
underlying
business
of
law
versus
practice
of
law
strength.
Ideally,
what
we
see
us
presenting
our
customers
with
is
a
deeply
integrated
experience
that
makes
both
the
business
of
law
AI
capabilities
and
the
practice
of
law
AI
capabilities
deeply
embedded
into
Clio’s
interface.
Those
respective
capabilities
emerge
and
are
accessible
at
the
right
time,
in
the
right
place,
depending
on
context.
We
certainly
want
our
user
experience
to
be
one
where
they’re
not
wondering,
do
I
work
with
Duo
or
do
I
work
with
Vincent
to
achieve
this
kind
of
legal
outcome
or
to
achieve
this
kind
of
outcome
in
my
business.
We
want
that
to
be
a
unified
and
streamlined
experience.
We’ll
be
working
with
the
vLex
team
to
map
out
exactly
what
that
looks
like.
Ambrogi:
What
about
the
whole
idea
of
agentic
AI
and
what
this
might
mean
for
workflows?
Newton:
That’s
one
of
the
most
compelling
use
cases,
Bob,
and
one
of
the
reasons
we
felt
this
acquisition
made
so
much
sense.
Agentic
AI
will
create
the
opportunity
for
the
workflows
and
automations
that
we’ve
already
built
deeply
into
Clio
to
trigger
agentic
workflows.
Where
you
could
imagine
a
workflow
in
Clio,
for
example,
triggering
an
agentic
AI
to
go
draft
a
legal
document
and
to
present
that
to
you
for
review
when
it’s
complete,
and
for
another
agent
to
be
triggered
and
to
coordinate
filing
those
documents
with
the
appropriate
court.
You
can
imagine
an
agentic
AI
being
triggered
for
every
new
case
that
is
taken
in
through
Clio
Grow
to
assess
the
deal
value
or
the
case
value
and
what
the
likely
outcome
of
that
case
would
be,
leveraging
the
vLex
data
set.
Whereas
historically
Clio
has
been
about
really
orchestrating
the
business
activities
of
a
law
firm
and
the
human
being
legal
professionals
at
that
law
firm,
the
Clio
of
the
future
will
be
about
orchestrating
both
the
human
beings
doing
the
legal
work,
as
well
as
enabling
the
human
beings
to
in
turn
orchestrate
a
set
of
legal
AIs,
agentic
AIs
that
can
help
them
not
just
manage
their
business,
but
actually
execute
the
legal
work,
the
practice
of
law
that
is
embedded
in
their
practice
–
for
Clio
to
be
a
singular
platform
spanning
the
business
of
law
and
the
practice
of
law
and
all
the
opportunities
for
agentic
AI
to
span
those
business
of
law
and
practice
of
law
workflows.
What
is
so
exciting
is
we
believe
Clio
is
the
only
company
in
the
world
positioned
to
execute
on
that
vision.
Ambrogi:
That
may
be
right
now.
I
mean,
certainly
nobody
else
has
the
combination
of
capabilities
that
you
have
at
this
point.
It’s
unique
and
potentially
powerful.
Newton:
It
is
unique
and
it’s
on
us
to
make
it
powerful.
Ambrogi:
That’s
all
the
questions
I
had.
What
else
stands
out
for
you
about
this?
What
else
haven’t
we
talked
about
that
you
wanted
to
mention?
Newton:
I
think
this
is
the
most
transformative
moment.
I
think
we’ll
look
back
on
this
as
a
really
key
inflection
point,
not
just
for
Clio,
but
for
the
legal
industry.
We
are
creating
a
new
type
of
legal
tech
company
and
a
new
category
of
capabilities
with
this
acquisition.
In
the
17
years
that
I’ve
been
running
Clio,
there
hasn’t
been
a
moment
as
substantial
and
as
impactful
as
this
vLex
acquisition
–
not
just
from
a
scale
perspective,
but
from
an
impact
perspective.
The
impact
and
the
stakes
here
really
can’t
be
overstated.
We’re
just
so
deeply
excited
about
the
opportunity
this
creates
for
Clio,
for
vLex
and
for
our
respective
customers.